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Vertical fight
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Thread Starter: Anonymous
Started: 05-04-1999 1:30 AM
Replies: 7

Community Server :: Forums » Military Aviation » Tactics » Vertical fight

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Anonymous

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Vertical fight

*** Posted by TIGER ***
When I chase a fighter in the vertical which is the minimum speed for the F16 to pull back on the stick from level flight to chase him in the vertical?
TIGER

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by Run ***
[When I chase a fighter in the vertical which is the minimum speed for the F16 to pull back on the stick from level flight to chase him in the vertical?
TIGER]

That all depends on configuration and altitude. Try to check it out in the flight sim. Set up different parameters & write down what you find. Thats the best way to learn. A lot of times we don't go by the book, but test it out for real.

RUN

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by TIGER ***
Hi RUN
Check out these:
F16 carring two Sidewinders and altitude 15000 , level flight.
Try to answer me reffering to my corner velocity not your classified.
Thanks RUN
TIGER

[When I chase a fighter in the vertical which is the minimum speed for the F16 to pull back on the stick from level flight to chase him in the vertical?
TIGER

That all depends on configuration and altitude. Try to check it out in the flight sim. Set up different parameters & write down what you find. Thats the best way to learn. A lot of times we don't go by the book, but test it out for real.

RUN]

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by Run ***
[Hi RUN
Check out these:
F16 carring two Sidewinders and altitude 15000 , level flight.
Try to answer me reffering to my corner velocity not your classified.
Thanks RUN
TIGER]

Just try it out in the sim. Don't expect to be able to maintain corner velocity, but maybe you will be able to in the sim.

RUN

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by Rapier ***
[When I chase a fighter in the vertical which is the minimum speed for the F16 to pull back on the stick from level flight to chase him in the vertical?
TIGER]

Hi Tiger,

If your flying Falcon 4 and you have a good stick and throtle system keep the F16 at 450 knt's and when you turn hard try to keep the F16 at this speed by balancing the throttle between the 450 - 500 Knt's. The manual does state the actual turn rate of the F16 if you read somewhere, I think it's in the "Max turn a corner velocity" traning mission (this is when turning left and right).

If your going vertical when your chasing a fighter you have two options put the burner up full wack to push you up there and chasing him, but the problem is I have found that the opposing fighter goes really high and can cause you to deep stall and this is exactlly what he want's to happen to you so he can come down and take his shot, so be careful.

Your second option which I have found is very effectve is to let him go high and keep your eye on him at all times, this is very important because if he comes down hard while your doing something else he will slip in undeneath you so use padlock. What you need to do is put the burner in and make a gap of about 2, 2.5 miles and then ease off the burner and perform a max G turn and drop a couple of chaff to but you some time. By the way before you turn flick the overide switch to give you a better turn radius. Dont worry about the other fighter because he went high so you already know his speed is not that great until he builds up on the way down. Ok, once you turned in his direction build up some speed and pull the nose up to 30 degrees. He might still be above you but dont panick just keep your eye on him and try and gain height without loosing speed. Eventually you will almost be level with him and you will know when you've got him because he will panick and go for the deck, (though beware sometimes he will try to keep you up there to make you stall as he will keep on turning) stay on him and nail him.

Dont bother to try to chase him in the vertical with a bomb setup, even if you have depleted half of your ordinance because you will put yourself in a bad position. Jettison you bombs only and treat the mission as an air to air interception mission. You can tell when he's going high becuse his speed will be high when he's comming towards you so dont fall into the trap of using your burner and following what he does because he will lock on an APEX and boom your toast. Go to full military power (100%) and pull up in a half loop if he goes high. Remember you have got to dictate and control the fight. You let the enemy control the fight and you have already lost.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Rapier.

Rapier

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by TIGER ***
Hi Rapier
If you keep the F16 between 450-500 kts the turn radius will increase dramatically so I sugest to make a test that is good for all flight sim:
1. Choose an altitude 100-20000 ft
2. Try to find the minimum speed of the aircraft at maximum G and read the turn radius.Then find the maximum speed at max G when turn radius increases dramaticaly and the turn rate goes down. Try to keep the chosen altitude.
3. Try the test at different altitudes with diff, kind of weapons.
In manual the actual corner velocity is between 330-440 kts based on the real diagram of Ps of the F16.
Thanks Rapier
TIGER

[
Hi Tiger,

If your flying Falcon 4 and you have a good stick and throtle system keep the F16 at 450 knt's and when you turn hard try to keep the F16 at this speed by balancing the throttle between the 450 - 500 Knt's. The manual does state the actual turn rate of the F16 if you read somewhere, I think it's in the "Max turn a corner velocity" traning mission (this is when turning left and right).

If your going vertical when your chasing a fighter you have two options put the burner up full wack to push you up there and chasing him, but the problem is I have found that the opposing fighter goes really high and can cause you to deep stall and this is exactlly what he want's to happen to you so he can come down and take his shot, so be careful.

Your second option which I have found is very effectve is to let him go high and keep your eye on him at all times, this is very important because if he comes down hard while your doing something else he will slip in undeneath you so use padlock. What you need to do is put the burner in and make a gap of about 2, 2.5 miles and then ease off the burner and perform a max G turn and drop a couple of chaff to but you some time. By the way before you turn flick the overide switch to give you a better turn radius. Dont worry about the other fighter because he went high so you already know his speed is not that great until he builds up on the way down. Ok, once you turned in his direction build up some speed and pull the nose up to 30 degrees. He might still be above you but dont panick just keep your eye on him and try and gain height without loosing speed. Eventually you will almost be level with him and you will know when you've got him because he will panick and go for the deck, (though beware sometimes he will try to keep you up there to make you stall as he will keep on turning) stay on him and nail him.

Dont bother to try to chase him in the vertical with a bomb setup, even if you have depleted half of your ordinance because you will put yourself in a bad position. Jettison you bombs only and treat the mission as an air to air interception mission. You can tell when he's going high becuse his speed will be high when he's comming towards you so dont fall into the trap of using your burner and following what he does because he will lock on an APEX and boom your toast. Go to full military power (100%) and pull up in a half loop if he goes high. Remember you have got to dictate and control the fight. You let the enemy control the fight and you have already lost.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Rapier.

Rapier]

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Anonymous

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by Rapier ***
[Hi Rapier
If you keep the F16 between 450-500 kts the turn radius will increase dramatically so I sugest to make a test that is good for all flight sim:
1. Choose an altitude 100-20000 ft
2. Try to find the minimum speed of the aircraft at maximum G and read the turn radius.Then find the maximum speed at max G when turn radius increases dramaticaly and the turn rate goes down. Try to keep the chosen altitude.
3. Try the test at different altitudes with diff, kind of weapons.
In manual the actual corner velocity is between 330-440 kts based on the real diagram of Ps of the F16.
Thanks Rapier
TIGER
]

Hi,

Are you using the overide switch when you start the manuver, because you are right you will go into the turn too fast if it's set to normal. Try with the manual overide. The switch is used to limit the amount of G-stress on the aircraft when performing a tight manuver which basically leave's the pilot/aircraft to take more than the limited 9G's. You need to try it Tiger because you will have to learn turning with the overide on to get you out of tricky situation's when dogfighting or pulling out of a stall. With overide on your turning radius will difer dramatically and you will have to learn an new set of turning perameters. Trust me, try it and you will see the difference.

Rapier

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Anonymous

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Re:Vertical fight

*** Posted by Rapier ***
[Hi RUN
Check out these:
F16 carring two Sidewinders and altitude 15000 , level flight.
Try to answer me reffering to my corner velocity not your classified.
Thanks RUN
TIGER

Just try it out in the sim. Don't expect to be able to maintain corner velocity, but maybe you will be able to in the sim.

RUN]

Hi RUN,

The flight model in Falcon 4 is 99.9% on. The flight dynamics and data of the real F-16 have been used to recreate the right feel in the sim, so what you do in real life you can also do in the sim. It can be difficult to maintain corner velocity in the sim without easing back off the stick otherwise you lose to much speed.

I just thought I'd point out how close this sim is to the real F-16, it's amazing. Not that you need to worry John you are lucky enough to fly the real F-16, we are all jelious.

Regards

Rapier.

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