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Posted by Anonymous on 05-19-1999 9:20 PM
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*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi guy's,
Would anybody like to share some AA & AG tactics. I'm always looking to learn something new and interesting. Anything you have learned or know of real life combat, or if your a flight sim addict this will also be useful.
In particular SAM evasive manuvers, tricks and tips.
Thanks. Any comments welcome.
Rapier.
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Posted by Anonymous on 06-01-1999 12:37 AM
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*** Posted by Ice ***
[Hi guy's,
Would anybody like to share some AA & AG tactics. I'm always looking to learn something new and interesting. Anything you have learned or know of real life combat, or if your a flight sim addict this will also be useful.
In particular SAM evasive manuvers, tricks and tips.
Thanks. Any comments welcome.
Rapier.]
Hello Rapier,
Saw your request in here, well, i must say i learn more in reading these
threads than i think i can add some new stuff.
But maybe there's a little to contribute.
I must say that most of the manoeuvers used in real live combat
are not alway's to be used in the sim you're flying.
Every sim has it's own habit's on reacting to manoeuvers.
So if one thing works in real live or in a certain sim, it's not always
to be used in another sim.
My experiences come from F22 ADF/TAW, and lots of talking about it with fellow
squad mates..
Will check in more often now,
Greetings from Holland. Ice, or Jan if that's better.
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Posted by Anonymous on 06-01-1999 1:08 AM
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*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi,
I think your comments are interesting so please feel free to contribute any info you wish regarding tactics, I like to learn and understand what other people have learned in todays sim's and whether they have adopted real life tactics when using them. For me personally when using real life tactics I find it gives me a kind of psycological advantage as well as a tactical advantage. You said that some real life tactics are not always used in sims. I have found using real life tactics to be a huge advantage. If you are playing F22ADF/TAW game it's true that you will not use so many combat tactics because it's a Stealth Aircraft so you wont need to do so much with this aircraft because it can handle itself very well, saying this when I completed F22 ADF I still had to learn the similar tactics that todays stealth pilots use. Falcon 4 is especially keen on the pilot adopting real life tactics as I have found that it is realistic enough that you have to plan the mission very well or you will keep getting shot down. I have been practicing SAM avoidance in F4 with some surprising results using real life tactical manuvers, though some you are right you will not have to use. The beauty of all of this is as sim's become more realistic we have to learn and adapt to each unique situation with new and exiting tactic's. It's all relative and interesting in todays sim's. Ok if your playing around with F-16 multirole then you can appretiate the fun side of things meaning you hardly use any real life tactics as it's more of an arcadey sort of game, but it's fun none the less. When you say every sim has it's own reaction to certain manuvers I can understand this and it underlines what I was saying earlier, at the end of it all you can keep playing the latest sim's out there and use and develop what you have learned from previous experiences. It's also good that you talk with fellow squadies because this also happens in the real world, discussing ideas and tactics and discussing tactics which they have improved upon or found to be more useful in a certain situation.
Kind Regards
Rapier
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Posted by Anonymous on 06-02-1999 11:15 PM
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*** Posted by Ice ***
Hello Rapier,
Well what can i say, you said it all.
It's very nice that you can use real live tactics in a sim as Falcon 4. That's the big disadvantage of F22, it's to SF.
I got Falcon 4 myself but my system isn't up to it so have to be patient untill i get a better sust.
It's even a little frustrating to have to wait for it to happen, but i still got my hands full on F22.
Oke so let's start the talks about tactics again, which you and Run did so many times before with, snake i think it was.
The merge, the one thing that, very often, decides what the outcome will be of the fight.
In the F22 the best way to sart the turn is with full brakes, a little Thrust Vectoring to start the turn and the speed around 300. With the TV the speed will bleed of untill around 250, that's the speed to continue the turn with with 6.4 G's on the clock.
Make a role and come out on top the right way up. Got 280 knts left while engaging the enemy.
That's how it works with the F22, never the same though but it's a start.
To bad i'm not flying the Falcon already, would be much easier to talk about tactics wenn flying the same aircraft, or must i say, flying the same sim.
Let me know what you think of this merge, and what you would do in the Facon wen going head to head with the enemy, one thing that will never happen in real combat.
Kind regards ICE.
[Hi,
I think your comments are interesting so please feel free to contribute any info you wish regarding tactics, I like to learn and understand what other people have learned in todays sim's and whether they have adopted real life tactics when using them. For me personally when using real life tactics I find it gives me a kind of psycological advantage as well as a tactical advantage. You said that some real life tactics are not always used in sims. I have found using real life tactics to be a huge advantage. If you are playing F22ADF/TAW game it's true that you will not use so many combat tactics because it's a Stealth Aircraft so you wont need to do so much with this aircraft because it can handle itself very well, saying this when I completed F22 ADF I still had to learn the similar tactics that todays stealth pilots use. Falcon 4 is especially keen on the pilot adopting real life tactics as I have found that it is realistic enough that you have to plan the mission very well or you will keep getting shot down. I have been practicing SAM avoidance in F4 with some surprising results using real life tactical manuvers, though some you are right you will not have to use. The beauty of all of this is as sim's become more realistic we have to learn and adapt to each unique situation with new and exiting tactic's. It's all relative and interesting in todays sim's. Ok if your playing around with F-16 multirole then you can appretiate the fun side of things meaning you hardly use any real life tactics as it's more of an arcadey sort of game, but it's fun none the less. When you say every sim has it's own reaction to certain manuvers I can understand this and it underlines what I was saying earlier, at the end of it all you can keep playing the latest sim's out there and use and develop what you have learned from previous experiences. It's also good that you talk with fellow squadies because this also happens in the real world, discussing ideas and tactics and discussing tactics which they have improved upon or found to be more useful in a certain situation.
Kind Regards
Rapier
]
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Posted by Anonymous on 06-03-1999 12:08 AM
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*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hello Ice,
Thanks for your message, well where do I start about the merge? There's loads of pilots that have different theories about this but I will tell you a bit of what I know and what I do in this situation.
This type of situation happens but happens rarely. Most of the Air combat today in real aircraft happens at BVR, but let's assume that we were in this situation because there are some interesting things I have learned when dogfighting in close quarters. Firstly there are loads of different variablesand conditions for this situation but let's take one into consideration.
If your heading towards a bandit attempt to gain a visual and watch him like a hawk. To put the game plan together approaching the merge, attempt to gain turning room laterally and
below the bandit. As you enter the bandit's turn circle you will begin to see rapid movement aft on your
canopy. Begin a low-to-high lead turn. If the bandit turns into you this will force a two circle fight. This
also means you are turning in the shortest direction to maintain tally. At the pass, overbank to get your
nose below the horizon to take advantage of radial G. Use a maximum G pull until low corner plateau
velocity (350 - 400 KCAS is a good window). Analyze the bandit's energy by evaluating his nose rate and
movement across the horizon and transition to a sustained turn rate pull. Set up the next pass to be the
low man. At the bandit's turn circle, when you begin to recognize definition on his aircraft
(approximately 3000'), begin a low-to-high lead turn, overbanking to use radial G, if possible. Do not
lose tally or go belly-up. Continue this plan until you achieve a position of advantage. Take shots of
opportunity but never give up all your energy for one shot unless it guarantees a kill. It is also important
to maintain over-the-top airspeed until the bandit has given up his over-the- top capability. Even with
equal performing aircraft, if you lead turn and use radial G to your advantage, you will gain a positional
advantage. When you have the positional advantage, transition to offensive BFM and kill the bandit. This is what I do in this situation and if you dont understand anything dont hesitate to ask, this is basic fighting manuvers in it's purest form and this is also what done in real life. Another way I have found this info is to read plenty of books on BFM as it teaches you the basics of staying alive in the air, though these books are difficult to find in some cases.
Regards
Rapier
[Oke so let's start the talks about tactics.
Let me know what you think of this merge, and what you would do in the Facon wen going head to head with the enemy, one thing that will never happen in real combat.
Kind regards ICE.]
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Posted by Anonymous on 06-03-1999 12:08 AM
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*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hello Ice,
Thanks for your message, well where do I start about the merge? There's loads of pilots that have different theories about this but I will tell you a bit of what I know and what I do in this situation.
This type of situation happens but happens rarely. Most of the Air combat today in real aircraft happens at BVR, but let's assume that we were in this situation because there are some interesting things I have learned when dogfighting in close quarters. Firstly there are loads of different variablesand conditions for this situation but let's take one into consideration.
If your heading towards a bandit attempt to gain a visual and watch him like a hawk. To put the game plan together approaching the merge, attempt to gain turning room laterally and
below the bandit. As you enter the bandit's turn circle you will begin to see rapid movement aft on your
canopy. Begin a low-to-high lead turn. If the bandit turns into you this will force a two circle fight. This
also means you are turning in the shortest direction to maintain tally. At the pass, overbank to get your
nose below the horizon to take advantage of radial G. Use a maximum G pull until low corner plateau
velocity (350 - 400 KCAS is a good window). Analyze the bandit's energy by evaluating his nose rate and
movement across the horizon and transition to a sustained turn rate pull. Set up the next pass to be the
low man. At the bandit's turn circle, when you begin to recognize definition on his aircraft
(approximately 3000'), begin a low-to-high lead turn, overbanking to use radial G, if possible. Do not
lose tally or go belly-up. Continue this plan until you achieve a position of advantage. Take shots of
opportunity but never give up all your energy for one shot unless it guarantees a kill. It is also important
to maintain over-the-top airspeed until the bandit has given up his over-the- top capability. Even with
equal performing aircraft, if you lead turn and use radial G to your advantage, you will gain a positional
advantage. When you have the positional advantage, transition to offensive BFM and kill the bandit. This is what I do in this situation and if you dont understand anything dont hesitate to ask, this is basic fighting manuvers in it's purest form and this is also what done in real life. Another way I have found this info is to read plenty of books on BFM as it teaches you the basics of staying alive in the air, though these books are difficult to find in some cases.
Regards
Rapier
[Oke so let's start the talks about tactics.
Let me know what you think of this merge, and what you would do in the Facon wen going head to head with the enemy, one thing that will never happen in real combat.
Kind regards ICE.]
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